Be bold!

Be bold!

Jingle Laura María Calderón Cuevas
Interviewer Véronique Lerch
Editing Brua | bruapodcasts.com

Transcript

Federico Batista Poitier 00:05

Two roads diverged in a wood and I, I took the one less traveled by, and that has made all the  difference.

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Véronique Lerch 00:18

Welcome to a new episode of our podcast The Road Less traveled. This is a project of the Center of  Human Rights from the University of Padova and Global Campus of Human Rights. With this podcast  and this project, we aim at exploring the less usual career paths that are possible after a degree in  human rights. We started it because we strongly believe that we need people doing human rights in  many different ways. And my guest today is doing human rights in many different ways. He already had  many different lives before he did the master in human rights. He was a property manager, an English  teacher, he worked for some NGOs. And now Federico Batista Poitier is an international policy expert  and advisor on accessibility and the implementation of the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons  with Disabilities, particularly in the context of urban development and the frameworks of the Sustainable  Development Goals and the New Urban Agenda. Welcome Federico!

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Federico Batista Poitier 01:15

Thank you, Véronique. It's a pleasure to be here. Like you said, I'm Federico and just for people  listening in: I'm mulatto man with big smile. And I've got a gap in the middle of my teeth, which is  something very characteristic of my family, big curly hair, and dark. And I'm wearing a floral t-shirt,  because I'm here in Barcelona by the beach for the summer. So yeah, that's a little bit about me.

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Véronique Lerch 01:38

Thank you, Federico. And as we discussed just before starting, I think it's something we're probably  going to take already from your work as accessibility and the need of describing yourselves. So I'm  Veronique and I would say I'm petite. And my hair is red. I'm a red-haired person. But of course, with  age is getting gray. And I have freckles. I'm very white. I live in Lisbon. So I have to take care of the  sun. So that's it for me.

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Federico Batista Poitier 02:09

Great description.  

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Véronique Lerch 02:11

I'm not very practiced but I'm definitely going to take this in for the next episodes. So thank you for that Federico. So, you currently work as accessibility policy officer at United cities and local government,  could you maybe tell us a little bit about what that work entails? Before we jump into more personal  questions about your past?

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Federico Batista Poitier 02:34

Yeah, I'll try to make it succinct, because it entails a lot of different things. So united states and local  governments is basically an easy way to describe it would be kind of like the UN of, of local and  regional governments around the world. And through this, there's a big focus on localization, which has  to do with the sustainable development goals. And that 65% of them to be implemented in this first to  reach 2030 have to happen at the local level. So through this, we have different policy structures, I  particularly focus on accessibility as mandated through the international human rights framework of the  Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disability. And its Article nine, which, if you look into depth of  the article, a lot of the competency to implement that article are with local and regional governments.  But unfortunately, with coordination, and sometimes centralization, it becomes really difficult to do this.  So through the work that we're doing, we have a kind of three pronged approach, which is learning  policy and research. The policy aspect is really bringing in this multi-level governance model where  national governments and local governments would work together so that they can reach the SDGs and  also the human rights framework within the convention. And then with learning to capacity building and  training on how to localize human rights, and what does Article Nine mean at the local level and  through programs. And then through research, we are documenting good practices and piloting also  programs on what cities are doing and what they can be doing. So those are kind of the three ways that  we're working through and this policy structure, interestingly enough, is not only driven by the  organization, but it's actually driven by the membership who approved prior to us working on this. So  basically, my role was approved. And so that's a part of the external work. And I also work internally to  ensure that the systems and processes within the organization also are testable. So bringing in Article  Nine into an agile organizational structure.

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Véronique Lerch 04:43

Thank you for this discussion. I think it gives a good overview of everything that you work into. I'm really  interested in that aspect of localization or do you localize international frameworks, and I think, maybe  linked to this question as after you started at the master or did you end up working at the city and local  level by choice or whether you know, something the, you know, an opportunity that popped up because  it is something that we often forgot. Like, you know, we forget that aspect of the localization of human  rights. So and I don't think we talked that much about it in the master. So I would be really interested to  know whether that was a conscious choice from your past.  

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Federico Batista Poitier 05:21

it's really interesting. And I'm always expressing now a question myself, why it doesn't come up in the  master more often? Because I think it's a very important aspect that needs to be whatever level you're working on, whether it is the national level or the UN, or you are working in local level, I think it's good  to have that context. Because, you know, like we were saying earlier, in there needs a coordination with  local governments to achieve the global goals. And without that kind of, look, it's a, you know, a gap  there. In terms of starting off in this area, focusing in this area, it's really interesting, because when I  look back at the work that I did, which, you know, started off with this kind of like an internship, but I  guess not in Geneva, where I was working with Handicap International and the international campaign  to ban landmines. And that was kind of my formal introduction into this space, more of the convention  and this the international field, and this was back in 2011 or something like this. And after I was living  there in Geneva, and you know, how expensive it is living there, I always thought I would go back, but I  needed to save some money to come back, I just decided to teach English in Korea. And interestingly  enough, they ended up putting me in an inclusive school, where at that time was being piloted in Korea.  And what that means an inclusive school was that students are mainstreamed together, so students  with and without disabilities are in the same classroom. But to complement, especially students with  intellectual disabilities, there's a kind of accessibility teacher there who has a good overview of what the  student's needs are. And so perceive your students who's deaf or blind, and maybe the other teachers  don't really know how to address some of those needs in the curriculum, that teacher would then go  back and communicate with the teacher and the student to ensure that the lessons and material are  accessible. And this particularly is important also, for learners with intellectual disabilities, to maybe  reinforce some of the knowledge. So that was interesting, because I was really kind of starting to look  at how policy looks like at the local level, because that actually comes from a national policy. But the  actual coordination of that, and where that needs to go in, does need a local connection. And so then I  think I was kind of picking my interest and how I guess human rights looks like on the day to day with  the people that actually mean something to. And then after, you know, instead of going back to  Geneva, I had applied to the Peace Corps, and I was working in a local village, in Lesotho, there, we  were kind of tasked with creating a project. And one of the projects that luckily I created with a local  representative of that municipality, or wasn't really municipality, it was kind of a chieftainship. You  know, she really helped me engage with the community and kind of address the needs. And I think one  of aligning fruit, I think sometimes we think in international development, the solutions need to be  something wild and crazy. But one of the things we realize was that the people disabilities in the  community didn't have a space as a group, to come to the meetings with the Chief. And in that kind of  community structure, if you're not a group, sometimes your needs and your rights are not really  addressed. Because it's seen as more individual, when in a community structure you need to be a  group. So having them come together as a group, and different. We had older people with disabilities,  women, men, young students, intellectual, psychosocial, physical disabilities, coming together and  really talking about these kinds of common issues. And after I left, and I would keep in touch,  unfortunately, we lost contact the last few years, but they still were meeting and coming to the chief with  their, their needs as a group. And some of those things were being addressed. So you know, that was  also really connected to what we're doing at the local level. And during that time, is when I decided to  apply to the master. And while I was in the Master, I think having those perspectives really important,  because I was my thesis was all focused on if the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities  actually changed the paradigm shift where people with disabilities were the actual advocates for their  rights instead of the beneficiaries. So I was trying to do a comparative between the regional framework  in Europe and also looking at friends in Zambia at the national level. And I what I found was yes, there  was the convention was a kind of a key motivator for the member states to recognize the rights and in contexts like in France in Zambia, where there was a lot of, let's say, localization of those human rights,  and people were understanding what they meant, there was a change and there were associations of  people disabilities, which were really important to come collectively and have a common voice for that  policy change. And then afterwards, during the time of the master, actually, while I was in the research,  I had found a YouTube video of what would be my next boss, which is the great guy named Victor  Pineda. I wrote to him, you know, just that I had been looking at work, but nothing was coming up in the  disability space. And nothing also was touching disability transversely, there was a lot of things on  gender, on migration, but without any focus on disability at that time, which I didn't know they were  negotiating the New Urban Agenda. And he was telling me about this and that he wanted to meet me,  he ended up telling me that he was going to Havana and I'm Cuban. So he was like, what if we meet  there, and we do the interview there? of course, that's a normal place to do an interview. He said we  can do the interview there, we will fly you out and also, you can give us a good local context. I want to  meet some associations here. Also. I said, sure. Yeah, no problem. So it was a week interview were in,  in Cuba, it was really nice. I had a few days with family before. But we went around and we met some  associations, and he told me, I think it would be great for you to come out to Berkeley where he was  based in California. And, you know, we'll start working on on some of these issues, which, you know,  had basically come in at the beginning of the New Urban Agenda, which this is kind of a critical turning  point in terms of the international community's recognition of, of the local space, and which is primarily  championed by UN Habitat. And then at that time, I didn't know that organism so well, but I'm working  with now, but also the united cities and local governments. And so basically, I was there at the  beginning of the with the negotiations prior to the member states. So some of the changes that needed  to go into the document before the member states I was part of those negotiations in, in New York after  the general approval, because we had a general approval and then went to the final. So I've been  working in this space and more from the side of civil society. And we were between UN Habitat and  United Cities and local governments kind of championing this, that there needed to be more focus more  training around this lens. And then luckily, in 2019, they tasked us with writing a policy paper around the  recommendations for local and regional government, which ended up creating the role that I'm in now.  And working directly with the policies.  

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Véronique Lerch 12:47

that's a fantastic answer. In a way, you know, it's so interesting, because if we just look at your CV, you're like, oh, that's, you know, looks all a bit odd. And then you bring that narrative, and it always  looks like a flow goes into you know, why you studied the master why you got your interest in the local  government and ended up in the current job. But you took us on a journey and going from Geneva to  Korea to Lesotho and Kuba. That was quite a trip. But Federico, let's go even further back. Because I  think what will be interesting to understand is where the interest for human rights comes from in your  life, were you always are clear that this is what you wanted to work for? social justice? and maybe  whether the rights of people with disabilities is something that was always your main interest, or it's  something that developed over time.

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Federico Batista Poitier 13:37

You know, it's really interesting now that I had that perspective of where I am now, I think it seems like  it's always been there. But I think in general, is kind of social justice is very kind of inherent to the  Cuban design. And so I think when I go back to when I was a kid, so my mom was a physical therapist, and it was really interesting, because I mean, I didn't appreciate it then now, but the way that she  treated her patients was very important to the outlook that I have in my career now. And I really take  this back into there was a friend of mine, who was a patient of my mom named David. And he only  communicated using his eyes. And, you know, I used to go with my mom, sometimes to work with  single parents, you have to juggle, you know how you do things, and I would go with her sometimes.  And David and I would be talking and I remember my mom to describe conversations with David. It was  never like about never mentioning that David communicates with his eyes, he would always say, I came  in and David told me I was pretty, and I never question that part. You know, I knew who David was, how he communicated. You know, it was important for my mom to have that inclusive language that  communication doesn't mean speaking, right. Communication has so many different variety of really  coming together. I didn't think you know, my mom always used to tell me, Oh, you're going to be you  should be a lawyer. You should be a lawyer. It taught me these things when I was young and especially  growing up professionally with this kind of school environment in the US. Human rights, I don't know, it  doesn't really have a kind of tangible take to it. And there's not so many people that you meet day to  day who are working, that's based in New York as well. So I grew up in New York, most of us don't go  by the UN or Manhattan. So, you know, I didn't have this take. And I actually studied forensic  anthropology. And if it wasn't for my undergraduate thesis, I would have gone to Scotland to work on  my background was to focus on creating a standard for burning human remains. And I mean, I was,  that was my thing, I was really good. At this. I was, yeah, basically specializing in human bones. And I,  you know, back then I can tell you every little piece of, of the bone how to identify left, right. So this was  my background. And then with the thesis that I did in the undergraduate work, it was looking at  forensics and context. And through there with the field of forensic anthropology actually, kind of got  more formalized during the Rwanda and Bosnia crimes, because the UN realized they didn't have  anybody to identify human remains, which was important in terms of like, giving rights back to the  families for burial. So I got really interested in there. And it's actually one of the reasons I decided to go  to Geneva was to meet with some of the scientists who were still working there. And I did meet with a  few of them. So basically, my first life, the first internship, I would have been no, no, like a kind of  internship, one because I was paid. And two, because I went to Geneva on a different premise. And  then while I was there, that maybe I should work in organization. So I literally went like door to door,  knock on these organization's doors, and did a few interviews. That's how I ended up working in that  space. And then later in life, there's my mum had an accident, which resulted in, in acquired disabilities,  cognitive disabilities. And luckily, with the sensitivity that I had, with my work prior, it helped a lot,  because there was so many things happening, and my mom at that for some months, she couldn't talk  to you anymore. And I think a lot of, you know, just, it's a common thing, that I'd have a negative  aspect, but I think people just associated that, you know, she was different now. And I kind of had to  champion all the time, you know, whether it was watching YouTube videos to learn how to put makeup  on my mom's will go out and people asking me, why are you doing that? And I said, you know my mom,  you know, how you like to be, you know, so of course, we're gonna go even to see the doctor, you  know, how she would want to present herself. And that's all a part of rehabilitation. Also, that moment  also gave me I think, a very lived experience in terms of the importance of that work, more so than just  the policy design, but how disability really is a part of human diversity, because it's a group, you know,  if you think about age, that you can enter in at any moment, and it shouldn't be a determinant of your  changing your, your lifestyle, right. And that, for me was so important, because I realized how much I  had to fight for general things that that was part of my mom's lifestyle, that, you know, people didn't understand why was championing. And also in, in terms of that experience, of course, we, I think we all  live through kind of, as you get older, these kind of life changing moments. This one also marked in  terms of me, identifying with the community even further through my mental health illnesses, you know,  from the trauma and dealing with that phase and, and how that changes your brain chemistry a bit and,  and new learning how to, I always say, especially with the cities, you know, we this language around  suffering from mental illness should be changed to be living with mental illness, because sometimes  that it's not so much of you trying to become who you were before, but understanding where you are  now, and how that can help shape your journey moving forward. So I think like, I always say that I'm  lucky to be in this space, because it made me resilient to all the things in life that would come up. And I  actually just had a talk with a therapist, and she told me, it's really interesting, because you're doing a  lot of these things that we recommend to people already, you know, and she says, it's great that you're  conscious of who you are, and where you are this moment and what things overwhelm you and what  things done. And I think all of those things are thanks to having a human rights framework that gives  them a place or platform that says we do need mental health services or we do need community  support services and because you never know you know, and it is something that is part of resilience of  the end?

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Véronique Lerch 20:03

Absolutely. Federico. That was a that was a beautiful answer. And I think what you said that links again,  well to the citizens the work you're doing, because we know that we live in a world that is urbanizing  very fast, and people with disabilities, we will be people with disabilities. The cities will have people with  disabilities, and elderly people, we need a city that is more adapted to everybody, and is designed for  all of us. And I think you in your work, you talk about cities for a lifetime, which I think is an interesting  concept, because it's true that we sometimes I mean, sometimes I go to certain cities, and I'm like,  Okay, that's good for young people. is like, that's it. If you're an abled, young person, that's a city for  you, but for the rest of us. So yeah, cities for a lifetime. I think it's a very good, it's a very good motto.

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Federico Batista Poitier 21:04

Yeah. And I think, you know, just jumping on there, I think it's really interesting when you think about,  you know, how our mobility changes. And I think a lot of young parents also experienced this suddenly,  where, you know, when you're single, and you're moving around, it's great. But then suddenly, it's like,  when you need to think about the safety of this young child that depends on you, and depends on this  whole environment. And you can see that in places where, you know, not only the environment is, but  the community is accessible as well. You know, the difference is in the pressure of being a caregiver,  right, and, and all of those things, I think, you know, when we think about the lifetime of things that we  will experience, and how beautiful that is about the human experience, that kind of gives the real  importance about diversity and, and inclusion. And I always one thing, I always like to add in terms of,  you know, how accessibility ends up being mainstream, is when you think about a lot of the solutions  that were put into place for mobile phones, text messages, text to speech, a lot of those things were  thought about for people with disability. But now you can imagine that sending a text message, right,  but it was just the idea of like, oh, instead of having a voice message, or what have you couldn't hear  the message, you need to see the message. And there you go, and you have a whole innovation that's part of our cultural society now.

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Véronique Lerch 22:24

it is making our life better to be more inclusive, and accessible. Is there anything in particular that they  you think of when you think of a more hopeful future for cities? Is there something in particular that you  hope to see, in the years to come? In cities?  

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Federico Batista Poitier 22:43

I think one thing, I always, you know, one of the nice things about also moving around and seeing  different cities is you can have, you know, taking see all these beautiful things that you wish you could  see in one city, you know, or, you know, one place, I think, you know, one thing I really love, and I  always bring this back from the Cuban example, or the South Korean example, is this idea of  community and really investing in community, because that also, you know, the places where have this  kind of community structures and been the places where I felt more identified, I think, as a person  coming to live in a new place, you, you leave behind a lot of things, and it's tough, you know, and  nobody will ever understand, you know, what you're leaving behind, it always seems like an  opportunity, which, you know, but there are things that you give up, you know, and whether it's time  with family, whether it's this little comforts are going to your best friend's wedding, you know, things like  this. And so what I really like is these places that really see you as a newcomer as an addition to the  city and not something to be absorbed into the city, and really kind of bringing respect and dignity. And  those things, you know, are a really culturally based event and some things that take time to really  embed. But when you do that, there, it helps, I think, also, people wanting to create an enabling  environment, which, you know, has this aspect of accessibility, but also, which we're increasingly  looking at as like a pilot of this, like, socially accessible spaces, but how do you, you know, bring in this  aspect of friendliness, and as a part of that accessibility as well, not only having all these technical  requirements there, but you know, the soft, soft power, I would say. So that's one thing I would love to  see more in cities is just this kind of investment into that social accessibility and really seeing everybody  whether they're there for five minutes, or 50 years, as an addition to the city and bringing parts of their  knowledge there to improve how things are. Another thing is also really tying in this whole theme from  the periphery because I think sometimes things are so city driven In, but you have these kind of  beautiful periphery areas that are connected to the city, and are just as important and can also be, I  think, considered really a part of the city. And this I like the concept because some, some cities, you  know, for good or bad, you, sometimes the density is just too much for some people, and I think  creating these opportunities that people can live a little bit outside, but still be connected to the city, the  opportunities of the city, you know, both economic and educational opportunities, I think is really  important. And sometimes, you know, not forgetting that, you know, you have all these towns around,  and those towns are filled with people and, and in some ways, because of the less traffic, that  friendliness is is a little bit inherent there already, and can be a good, a good segway for people you're  looking to stay close, stay with their jobs, but wanting to build a family, you know, really be connected  through a lifetime. And I think that is also extending a little bit the concept of the city. And that requires  investment. Because you know, in a place like Barcelona, it works really well, where you have a train  line that can take you really fast, you know, to a lot of the outside cities, but in other areas, it's really,  uh, you know, I have to leave this job because I need to move out of the city, because I can't afford it  anymore. And it changes a lot of gifts. So I think making it a little bit more adaptable, and how you  access those opportunities. And yeah, let's say just the last thing is just, you know, I think something  that speaks to everyone is just really prioritizing nature. And what that means. And I think I'm really sensitive to it, because it's part of, you know, my mental health journey has a lot to do with nature. And,  and luckily, I've lived in a lot of cities where I've been able to have been really close to nature really  easily and it is accessible. And it's made the aspects of being able to be in a city much more  manageable.

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Véronique Lerch 26:57

So okay, so you have three points in terms of your hopeful future: prioritizing nature, this continuum of  urban rural, like making sure the services are ensuring this continuum, and the friendliness, all the soft  aspects of accessibility. Is there a city in particular where you felt more welcome, or where you find the  

thing of, Oh, am in addition to a value added to the city, I feel welcome. And I'm not just swallowed in  the city, and forced to integrate, and to become one of them. And I'm not accepted as my full self. Is  there a place in particular where you felt this?

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Federico Batista Poitier 27:39

I would say, in this one is more of a town, but it was when I lived in Chungju, in South Korea, it was the  place I felt the most accepted, which people always are, like, shocked, because I feel like, you know, it  was too much in society. And you know, but it was a place I felt like the most respected, the most  accepted. I still remember, you know, people, when you would come there, they were like, Oh, thanks  for coming here choosing to live here. And it was the first time ever happened to me, you move  someplace, and people are not, you know, telling you all the benefits of here are talking down about the  place that you were before. But really, you know, thanking you for taking the time to be away from your  family really, and it felt, I don't know, somehow very, yeah, it was emotional. Because, you know, like, I  had a moment when my mom came to visit, and there was a woman at my job, she told my mom, I  know how hard it is for you to be away from your son. And I just want you to know that I don't think that  he's alone here. He has people who care about him here, and people are looking for him. And he's like,  you can even think of me as his South Korean mother, you know, and, and this happened many, many  times, I wish I had more time to tell. But like, there was many different people in my life there. That just  adopted me very quickly. And I was lucky enough to go recently in October for work. And it actually  been 10 years since I've been there. But it was like nothing, no time change at all. And, yeah, it's a  place that I think I always look towards. In my idea for the future of it.

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Véronique Lerch 29:19

No, wow, that's amazing. I don't see there are so many places like this. In that hopeful future. You also  mentioned mental health in the same that we need to keep paying attention to, is there anything that  you want to share about the way you take care of your mental health or things that you go back to in  terms of maybe music, poem, activities? I mean, if you feel if you feel comfortable to share.

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Federico Batista Poitier 29:40

No I always share because it's a big thing actually, at work, they are always joking that I'm the only one  who have a good work life balance. But if I tell people just because I know my limitation, right, I don't  try. I'm not trying to fit in a bubble of what the workers should be because I know that doesn't work for  me and will limit my skill set and what I can share. Yeah, in terms of this. And it's been an interesting  journey, because since I move a lot, and I guess this was maybe a good thing in a sense, but I couldn't  have this kind of regular therapy, right, where you see the same therapist for many years, and it kind of creates a journey. So I had to find like, my own little bubbles of things that I need to do. You know, one  thing and I think that this is very important in the way that you can, because it's difficult for people also  economically, but having really your own space, whether it's something for you, that is just where you  can be completely yourself, because I think it can be hard being outside all the time and being around  people all the time. Because it comes with a certain responsibility, we'll say, which is okay, it's good to  have a responsibility, a shared responsibility. But it's also good to have a moment for yourself where  you can do that. And I always think about it in terms of like housing policies, and you know, how it's,  you know, affordable housing is. And so that's a big issue in terms of, you know, some of the work that  we talked about a lot, because that comes up very often. But yeah, I would say, finding a space to  carve out. And there's a really good book called "To Room Nineteen" which is always in my guide. And  it's you know a bit about this person who doesn't know how to share this with people that they around  them that they love, because they have a really good life, but they want their own space alone. And  where nobody knows where they are, where they can be bothered with, just be. And I think really  finding that kind of space for you is, is really important, especially if you're traveling often or changing  for work often, having something where you can regroup and really assess how you're feeling. I  adopted a cat, which, that has been very important, in terms of creating a routine, I think routine is  really good. You know, especially when we're living in a lifestyle where it's so many different things and  that you can do all the time, and it's kind of up your routine can actually be pulled out at any time, it's  been really nice to have this animal with me that kind of needs me to wake up needs me to put some  food there. And those days where I'm I don't want to get out of bed. It's been that one thing that will get  me out of bed and just being able to get out of bed and stand up and say, okay, you know, I'm I'm  doing, I stood up, you know, I'm doing well, kind of brings up your energy again. And, and that's been  really important. And I'll just mention two other points, the positive thinking as silly as it sounds, you  know, before I go to bed, and when I wake up I last thing and the first thing I do is I Name five things  that I'm thankful for. And luckily enough, as of today, I'm still able to do it really fast. And I think, wow, I  can Name five things really quickly. I'm quite lucky, you know that I have five things that really make me  happy. And so being conscious about the good things in life, because I think it's so easy to forget those  things that are happening, those really good things that are happening. And the little small things also,  you know, just being able to open your door and get some fresh air being you know, thankful for those  kinds of things can can really help some of those dark moments. And, and I always suggest this and I  don't know, it's hard for some people because I grew up on a farm in Cuba as a kid. And so nature was  always really important to me in understanding, you know, what I'm eating what's going inside of me  and what actually a tomato leaf looks like, and what does it smell like when you touch it?  

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Véronique Lerch 31:33

And it smells wonderful.  

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Federico Batista Poitier 33:48

Yeah, exactly. I actually have a garden here, it's about 10 minutes from my place, and I go there and  it's a way to build community, I touch the dirt, I'm planting my things, I'm sharing my things because it's  too big of a space for me, but I share those things. And it's, it helps me kind of deal with some things  maybe that I don't know how to talk about yet in a very constructive way. And looking at and when you  see that new leaf turn, it's kind of also representative of where your life can be. If you take time, there's  a song in Spanish and I'm just gonna sing it a little bit. It's like El que siembra su Maíz and means like the person who plants their corn and at the end will have their harvest. Right. And I think you have to  look at your life and as ambitious as you are and in dating, be ambitious about yourself and be  ambitious about, you know, planting those seeds in you that are going to help you grow.

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Véronique Lerch 34:47

This is beautiful. As you're very good at giving advice today, I'm going to ask you if you have any advice  for young graduates and in terms of them looking for a job and you know, maybe finishing their studies  and you know That's a moment that is always quite stressful or whether you have any advice on this.

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Federico Batista Poitier 35:05

use youtube?

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Véronique Lerch 35:09

use YouTube connect with people on the videos. I mean, that can be dangerous considering.  

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Federico Batista Poitier 35:14

But I would say be be a bit bold. Yeah, be bold. I mean, yeah, I understand I would say like be a bit  bold. I mean, you never know what reaching out directly to somebody is because I mean, you just  imagine how many things are happening in, in that recruiter whoever is going to see your file. So trying  to be proactive, reach out most of the jobs that I have, also, because I come from this more non  traditional space, not from doing online applications and everything, but it was actually reaching out,  and also taking a little bit of a chance, you know, to see what was the possibility. So that's always my  suggestion, don't never be limited to, you know, these online applications. If you see a place that you  want to work in, be proactive about it. If you're not there physically, we live in a great information age  right now. Try connecting with people online, LinkedIn, other people have worked there, whoever  becomes the most open to talking with you use that as a as a link. Because I mean, you know, this as  well, a lot of these jobs, especially in this field, tend to go through an internal review before they actually  go outside. And you know, being in someone's mind already can be the difference between you and  another person getting the job. So, I would say being very open to being bold and putting yourself  where you want to be before you're there.

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Véronique Lerch 36:39

Yeah, it's absolutely this. I mean, you need to know who you want to work with and the people you  admire, there's no reason why you couldn't contact them. We live as you saying, in a world where it is  getting so easy to connect with people, even if you're very far away, so yeah, great advice Federico, I  mean, I don't know if we should ask you to sing to close this. Are you a good singer?

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Federico Batista Poitier 37:00

Maybe I don't know why people told me but you know, I get half and half you know, I feel like I'm I'm I'm  a performer, maybe.

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Véronique Lerch 37:09

Alright, so maybe if you have any final concluding words that you want to share with us maybe like  getting into the singing, but is there anything, anything you want to say to conclude this conversation.

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Federico Batista Poitier 37:21

I just want to say that I think, I don't know life is so dynamic and so short, and don't be afraid to live it  and if there's something that you really want to do in a place that you really want to be do it because it's  something that a lot of times time is the only thing you can never go back to. So take advantage of that  time that you have it and be there.

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Véronique Lerch 37:43

Thank you Federico for this beautiful conversation. Enjoy the sun!